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What to shoot for in each category 5x5?

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tmjones2 View Drop Down
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  Quote tmjones2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What to shoot for in each category 5x5?
    Posted: 26 Jan 2014 at 8:24am
So I've never played fantasy baseball before and I'm not sure what it takes to win a 12 or 15 team league 5x5. Can anyone help me out and post what it took to win in each of those categories in their league last year? Would be great it you could provide some details (how many teams). Also curious what it takes to get third in each category, so I've seen some people say you want to shoot for 3rd in every category (is that true?).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: If it matters, I playing one of those $125 or $150 12 or 15 team 5x5 NFBC leagues (Satellite).

Edited by tmjones2 - 26 Jan 2014 at 8:25am
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astrosfanatic View Drop Down
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  Quote astrosfanatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 5:18pm
the difference between 12 and 15 is going to be considerable. I was in leagues with 10, 11, and 16 members last year. No 12 man leagues as weird as that sounds. But you are on the right track to doing well in your first year. Third in each category gives you 100 points in a 12-man league which is a good total. Only problem is, that it is hard to be that good in all 10 categories. It's more likely that you are going to need to be 3rd in like half of the categories, elite in 2 or 3 and average in 2 or 3. I dont think i have ever been a part of a league where the winner didn't win at least one (usually 2 or 3) categories.

Like I said, you are on the right track. Figure out what stats won a league (figuring out what the 5th place team would be is good too to give you a frame of reference) is a great way to set goals for your team.


Good luck.

Edited by astrosfanatic - 28 Jan 2014 at 5:19pm
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 6:30pm
I usually plan on trying to place 3rd in all 10 categories, but like astros said, that's easier said than done. I usually come up short in stolen bases, because the guys that will place you high in steals, aren't usually the guys that help you in the power and production categories. They do well in runs, usually, but aren't really any better there than a lot of the #3 hitters in good lineups. Saves is another category that is often "punted."

You're probably looking for raw numbers to aim for though, so I'll give you the 3rd place numbers for my two 12 team leagues. In my experience, the category leaders are usually far better than the #2 and #3 finishers, and those aren't realistic numbers to shoot for.

The first number is a 12 team league with the following positions C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, OF x 4, U x 2, SP x 6, RP x 3.

The second numbers are for a 12 teamer with the same positions plus MI, CI and one more pitcher.

Average .276/ .276
Homers 218/ 252
Runs 853/ 1012
RBI 841/ 942
Steals 139/ 172

ERA 3.51/ 3.35
WHIP 1.198/ 1.189
Strikeouts 1363/ 1474
Wins 96/ 107
Saves 112/ 117

I hope that helps.


Edited by lvtdude - 28 Jan 2014 at 6:31pm
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 6:39pm
One thing I will say, is don't overpay for saves. Closers are a very volatile position, and I find it is much safer to target the best setup men later in the draft. They'll give you all the same stats, except saves, and quite often, they get promoted. When they do, you pick up some saves you didn't pay for, and you may end up with 3 to 5 points in the saves category.

Aiming for 100 points assures you of winning most leagues, but even if you place 3rd in 8 categories and 8th in steals and saves, you still have 90 points, and that will usually put you in the running for 1st, 2nd or 3rd. If you get 5 in steals and 5 in saves, that means you have to excel in a few other categories. That's really not too hard, if you aren't wasting valuable early picks on closers and stolen base guys that are often one trick ponies. 
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 6:49pm
I will add to what LVT said but kind of the opposite. In my main money keeper league with ten teams in it I always finish 1st or 2nd in sb's and saves. When I am teaching a new guy I tell him this and point out to look at the past standings where I finish there in this league.

I think those are the two easiest cats to win so I win them. If I told you to go all out to win hr's or rbi's it would still be hard to do. But if you went hard at sb's and saves you can almost always win those. It takes a full team of 14-15 hitters to win BA, HR, Runs, K's, Wins, ERA, WHIP. But it only takes a couple of players on your team to win sb's and saves. Which is why it is easy to win those cats if you wan't to.

This is a weekly lineup change league. So what I do is run 4 closers all year long while other use 3 of them. Even if they have better closers it is hard to make up for an extra closer so I don't even need to waste picks on top closers and still win saves each year. Then I try to have 3 very good sp's. Then I pick up 2 two start pitchers very week. When you do the math it comes out pretty good as far as getting starts.

Will add in example in next post.....

Edited by LABLUE - 28 Jan 2014 at 6:50pm
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 6:56pm
The normal guy with a Kershaw type sp will get about 33 starts a year in a 26 week season. So 33 times 6 SP is 198 starts..Then he will have 3 closers all year getting him saves plus k's and era/whip from closers for about 60-70 IP. My system gets me 4 closers getting saves and an extra 60-70 IP from the closers then he does. I also get 33 x 3 SP starts the same as him. Then from my two other spots where I rotate 2 start guys each week I get 52 starts x 2 SP from them. So when you add it up I get 203 starts to his 198. So I get 5 extra starts yet also get an extra closer all year in my lineup then others do. Now of course other people can pick up some 2 start guys also during the year to take the lead over me in starts. But usually not by much. Now they key to this system is being able to find the right 2 pickups every week. In a ten teamer with only 3 bench spot there is always decent FA pickups each week if you are good at finding it.

Edited by LABLUE - 28 Jan 2014 at 7:00pm
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 6:59pm
When it comes to sbs' it is much more simple. You can add one or two great sb's in most leagues and win that cat. What I do is usually have a decent amount of sb's from my keepers without having a pure sb guy. Usually around 70-80 sb's from my keepers. Then I draft enough to finish around 180 sb's. In my league 200 usually is first or second. The key is during the season for a few months only I find/trade for a few sb's guys and get a lead there. Then get rid of them and go back to power. I make sure I only win sb's and saves by a few each year since you don't get bonus points for winning by alot in roto cats.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 7:07pm
Here is where I have finished in sb's and saves in this league the past 9 years. Has been around for 18 but on a different site for 9.

Saves: 2-2-3-2-4-1-1-1-1

SB's: 1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-2


I just feel these are easy cats to win so win them.

Edited by LABLUE - 28 Jan 2014 at 7:08pm
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 7:20pm
"I make sure I only win sb's and saves by a few each year since you don't get bonus points for winning by alot in roto cats."

That is a fine point, right there. Too often I see someone just killing the opposition in a particular category, but never take advantage of it. If you're in the lead in homers by 30, it's no better than leading by 1. You may as well trade away the excess in the category for something you really need. It sounds like a no-brainer, but I see this mistake all the time.

I have seen Blue's system work, but you have to be very attentive, plan your starting pitcher pickups carefully, and actually pick up 2 start pitchers that perform well that week. That's easier said than done. I'm more of the set it and forget type of guy with my roster (especially with my hitting!), but if you are really good at determining who will have good or bad starts, more power to you.

Back to the set it and forget it point. I very rarely switch hitters out of my lineup. I count on guys to get their projected stats, and they usually do. If you take a guy out after he's had a bad week, you are almost certain to miss out on his good weeks. Leave them in there.

I once watched a guy leave Jim Thome in his roster every week, even though he was barely hitting over .200 in the middle of May. I thought he was crazy to not take him out of his lineup. When the 2002 season ended, he had a .304 average, 52 HR and 118 rbi. That taught me to trust my stars, and never take them out.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 7:28pm
I agree on the hitting. I usually let my hitters stay in there. Mainly the stars. I almost never bench them. For finding FA sp in a ten team league that is my pride and joy of that league. While others that are not very good at fantasy say I get lucky with these pickups I spend alot of time on them each week. Studying home/road splits, grass/turf splits, heavy lefty/righty lineup splits, night/day splits, etc.....Then I do the same for the opponent my SP FA will be facing.


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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 7:33pm
Even in football it is hard for me to bench my studs even during a horrible year. I remember in 1995 when I had one of the best te's in the game Ben Coates and he had a bad season. I want to say he had zero td's in about ten games. I finally benched him and he had a 3 td game and I lost by 2 points. To this day it still bothers me.
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higgsboson View Drop Down
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  Quote higgsboson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 9:21am
It is very different if you are in a deep league with keepers. Here are the numbers for standard 14 hitters, 9P 12 team single league to be in 2nd-3rd place in each cat

AVG: .272
HR: 210
R: 880
RBI: 865
SB: 140

ERA: 3.5
K: 1250
S: 82
W: 90
WHIP: 1.24

These numbers will easily win you the league every year in a single league format.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 9:29am
Higgs your numbers look way low for hitting to win.

Here is the totals from my 12 team non keeper league that I won last year. These are just my totals and not what 1st place was in each cat. 1500 IP cap and 162 games played per position. 15 hitters instead of 14.

AVG: 275
HR: 307
Runs: 1139
RBI: 1149
SB: 206


ERA: 3.40
K: 1295
S: 156
W: 94
Whip: 1.24
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higgsboson View Drop Down
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  Quote higgsboson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 2:45pm
Strange. Is this for a single league? I see no way to get even close to 156 saves. You would need more than 3 closers, and in a 12 team league, at any given time there will be 15 closers, so a team who has 2 will be at the top. In the history of our league 250 hr is the record. No one has ever gotten past 1000 in runs or rbi's, and the max SB record is 164. 90 saves is a record, K's and wins look reasonable, but they would win the cat every year. There is no way your numbers can be achieved in a single league (my stats come from an NL only) 12 team format.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 2:48pm
That is the problem...You did not say NL only before. Way harder then.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 2:48pm
When you said single league I thought you meant single year with no keepers.
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 4:12pm
I'm not a fan of "only" leagues. That's like a birthday party having cake or ice cream, but not both.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 4:14pm
I agree. Been playing for 26 years now and have never done a ONLY league. No reason to cut out half the players. Rather double the teams in the league if you want a deeper league. I am in a few 20 teamers.
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 5:23pm
Yeah, or go with about 20 hitters and 15 hitters if you have to.  
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astrosfanatic View Drop Down
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  Quote astrosfanatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 5:57pm
great conversation guys. I was going to come back and add that a good thing to do when setting targets for categories is to take the totals and divide them by the number of hitters to find the average that each hitter should attain. That will give you an idea of where certain guys help/hinder your overall goal.

Did an NL-Only league once. It sucked. I think I had Adam Fing Everett for my SS. I've never gone back.
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