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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PED Cheaters
    Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 11:10am
I've posted this to my facebook page. It is aimed at my fellow Detroit Tigers fans, but I am sure it echoes the feelings of baseball fans everywhere...

For those of you who are fans of Jhonny Peralta, I do feel bad for you. The little kid wearing a Peralta jersey, every time he watches the Tigers play, has been crushed. The parents of that child have to explain to them why their hero cheated, and how he was selfish.

Many people feel these athletes are just overpaid jocks, and have no grasp of what is happening today. For millions of little boys and girls, these baseball players are heroes. It can be argued whether or not they should be, but they are, nonetheless.

As a youngster, I LOVED, I repeat, LOVED Alan Trammell. He embodied everything that's good about the game of baseball. He played the game the right way, he played it very well, he led his team silently, and he played for the Tigers for his entire career, from the time I was 6 years old, to his retirement when I was 25.  If this PED scandal would have happened during the 1984 season, when I was 13 years old, and Alan Trammell had been suspended for illegal drug use and cheating, I would have been mortified. I can't even tell you how angry and hurt I would have been. I might have sworn off baseball altogether.

On top of how that would have made me feel, think about the effect it would have had on his team. Could the Tigers have made the playoffs or won the 1984 World Series without Alan Trammell? Highly unlikely. He was the World Series MVP. None of that would have happened if he had been suspended, like Jhonny Peralta has been.

These cheaters are lucky to get off with a 50 game suspension. They should be banned for life. Taking these drugs didn't just affect their bodies, they affected fans, teammates, and playoff hopes. They should pay the price. It sickens me that most of these guys will make millions of dollars next year.

The only thing about this that I can smile about is that Jhonny Peralta is a free agent after this season, and I'll never have to watch him don the Olde English D ever again.

Good riddance, cheater.
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daswah View Drop Down
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  Quote daswah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 7:13pm
I don't know...I like seeing big homeruns.  I like seeing players play every game.  I like to be entertained.
 
The conditioning and strengthening programs for each team already makes them beyond the average person...why not just accept PED use and be entertained and watch the brightest candles burn quickest?
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 7:34pm
Then it says ok for kids on my 10 year old all star little league team to use them also. All high school kids ok to use.
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by daswah

I don't know...I like seeing big homeruns.  I like seeing players play every game.  I like to be entertained.
 
The conditioning and strengthening programs for each team already makes them beyond the average person...why not just accept PED use and be entertained and watch the brightest candles burn quickest?


That mentality is the same mindset taken by people who enjoy dog fights. "As long as I'm entertained, it doesn't matter if the participants are getting hurt."

The drugs are illegal, and unsafe when used in the manner these players use them. They aren't illegal in order to take away your fun. They are illegal because they are dangerous.


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daswah View Drop Down
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  Quote daswah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2013 at 12:21am
It's all about the concept of choice.
 
Steroids, as they are being administered to these athletes, are safe.
 
I'm not saying that it's okay for kids to use them.  But let's be completely real...if we're trying to save the children, steroids are pretty much in the bottom half of things we should be worried about...
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2013 at 3:59am
No, they are not safe as they are being used by athletes. Are you kidding me?
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jaykayjk10 View Drop Down
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  Quote jaykayjk10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2013 at 5:00pm
Is this guy trolling or is he really this dumb? Yes steroids are dangerous ignoramus.
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daswah View Drop Down
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  Quote daswah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2013 at 4:12pm
Am I trolling?  Of course not.  I just have a dissenting opinion on the matter.  And nice harry potter reference...
Steroids are dangerous.  No one is arguing that point.  Just as common house hold cleaner is dangerous.  And rat poison.  And several of the things they put into tap water.  And a whole plethora of things that we don't need to get into.  But the simple statement that Steroids are Bad is very...limited in scope.
 
Steroids, absolutely, can be used in a safe manner if monitored by someone who knows something...like a doctor.  If they were legalized in professional sports, we'd have athletes getting the best medical direction with PED's as they can.
 
And let's face it...we all use some kind of PED - coffee, nicotine, vitimin B...etc.  It's just that most of them we, the common people, have access to aren't going to make us a muscle bound freak of nature.
 
I vote that we allow professional athletes burn their bodies quick and die young.  They're already putting their own health at risk for the sport.  And if they choose to do this...they should be able to choose to do something that increases their performance because they have to perform.  The financial power of sports is predicated on improvement of performance.  It's a win win win for everyone.
 
Are steroids dangerous?  Absolutely.  Without a doubt steroids can be deadly to you and those around you.  We have plenty of examples of how deadly they can be.  But in a controlled manner, they can be highly effective...hence, players use them even though they might get caught.
 
If you want to have a "pure" league...do it.  Separate the 'roided athletes from the natural athletes.  Keep amateur competition natural as well - college (cuz' no one uses PED in college...right?), and world events like the olympics and cycling...hell, you can include curling as well (Vernon Davis curled...and do you really think he never once used a PED?)...these can be natural and free of PEDs.
 
Doesn't that solve everything?  The people who are willing to sacrifice themselves for the almighty dollar and gain the accolades can juice, and those who are willing to have just a little less accolade, and just a little less money, can play in an all natural league.
 
And sure...we fear for the children.  Of course we fear for the children.  Do you really think that having a purely juiced league would lead to more juicing in high school or by other youth?  Or do you think that letting the see giant hulking men collapsing on the turf because their heart explodes, or watching muscles rip off bone will increase youth use?  Maybe...I guess.  I mean...the kids who will stop at nothing to achieve their goal of being in the NFL or MLB or whatever else league they need to get into will use PEDs regardless of what's really happening.  And the others are hopefully going to be smart enough and have parents, teachers, and coaches, who are smart enough to teach them the dangers of PED's.  And like all prescriptions and controlled substances, they will have to wait until they are old enough to legally make their own decisions.
 
I don't understand the need for there to be all natural competition.  It's only cheating if no one else is doing it.  Form a new league...you can have different stat books.  Sure there's going to be comparisons, but the true legends will speak for themselves.  And the integrity of the sports can be safe.  And we don't have to use the astrisk, or have a holier than thou group of voters who are shunning the victorious who unfortunately got caught in an era of blatant use...
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2013 at 4:25pm
Listen, I graduated from high school back in 1988. Even back then, there were a few guys in our school that were taking steroids. How they got them, I have no idea. These guys managed to do get these drugs and do irreparable damage to their bodies without the help of the internet, and shady online pharmacies. Just think how easy it is now for kids- stupid, impressionable kids- to get these drugs. Kids feel invincible and do many stupid things, consequences be damned. Giving them role models who take these drugs is insane.


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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2013 at 7:13pm
If it is legal to do in MLB then little league kids will be doing them also knowing that is what it will take to make it to the big leagues. If they know they will be banned if they tae the illegal drugs then most won't do them. I would have taken them 100% if they were legal in high school or even younger if I knew that was my shot to make MLB.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2013 at 7:13pm
1988? Damn you are an old man.





















I graduated in 1989...Much younger.
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2013 at 11:02pm
That's why I am so much wiser.  Geek
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daswah View Drop Down
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  Quote daswah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 3:59pm
I think it's faultly logic to say that more kids will be doing them because it's legal in professional sports...
 
I graduated in '93 and I currently coach at the high school level and teach at the middle school level...not quite as old as lvtdude, but old enough.
 
It's currently illegal in professional sports, and there are still kids at ALL levels of sports who are being pushed to make bad decisions in the name of sports.
 
It's legal to drink at the age of 21...do you think that less kids would drink if it were illegal to drink?  I mean...cuz kids don't get their hands on pot, or meth, or coke, or mushrooms, or LSD...because those drugs are illegal.  Right?
 
I'm glad that we're cracking down on the PED's because we are saying that they're illegal.  It's nice to see MLB and (a few) other sports get serious about PED's.  But let's be serious...there is rampant use in Div1 and at the professional level.  And they almost all use anything and everything that's not yet on the illegal list.
 
Again...unmitigated steroid use is stupid and deadly and should be discouraged.  But medically monitored use for the entertainment of the masses?  We sell our bodies in so many other ways, why not create freakishly augmented athletes?  Or is this one of those places we need to draw the line in the sand?
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 4:19pm
I think your looking at the drinking thing wrong. If it were legal to drink at 5 years old then I do think more kids would drink. There are still alot of people out there and mainly kids that don't break the law. That is how I look at little kids taking steroids would be. Making it legal to take them and knowing all players that make the big leagues take them then kids would all take them.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 4:22pm
I coach little and help high school baseball and I would tell the better kids to take them if they were legal and wanted to be better and have a greater shot at moving on. I think they are worth the risk myself right now while they are illegal. Make them legal and hell yes everyone should do it imo. I do things bad for my body all the time.
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 4:57pm
There are things that are bad, and then there are things that are BAD.

Comparing this to drinking is a little off the mark. If you drink like a fish for years and years, you'll eventually destroy your liver (among other things.) If you drink a small amount daily, it won't hurt you, and it may actually benefit your health in some cases. However, drinking alcohol isn't prescribed by a doctor for any ailment that I know of. It really doesn't have medicinal value, other than maybe helping you sleep. So, maybe a doctor might say, try a shot of brandy to help you sleep. He would never say, drink 40 beers a day.

Well, with steroids, there is some medicinal value. However, doctors never prescribe them the way these athletes are using them. They prescribe them to treat a disease, not to increase performance to herculean levels. No one goes to the doctor and says, "hey, I can hit a ball 300 feet, but that's not good enough. Can you give me a shot that will make me hit it 400 feet?" Even if they did ask, the doctor couldn't prescribe a steroid that would SAFELY produce those results. To do that, you need to give huge quantities of steroids that will eventually destroy your organs, and/or cause cancer. A doctor would lose his license if he practiced that sort of medicine.

I'm sorry, but taking steroids to increase your baseball performance is about as smart as smoking cigarettes to lose weight.
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PennMan View Drop Down
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  Quote PennMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 8:09am
Only a 50 game ban for these players and others like them is a joke and black eye on baseball!

They all deliberately, and in nothing but a deceiving self serving manner cheated repeatedly by taking steroids or other PED's on multiple occasions regardless of if they have been caught just once or more than once.

The MLB should either legalize it entirely by not making it any issue or they should do what is in my opinion the right thing for the game, fans, and all players which is to ban all players who take PED's and ban these players for life along with voiding their contracts and requiring them to pay back every dollar they received in salary plus a penalty.

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daswah View Drop Down
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  Quote daswah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 7:03pm
lvt, I think that steroids help with bat speed and control.  Also, maybe allows you to use a heavier bat.  But it's not just steroids but other stimulants.  It's a long season and especially for those who end up playing internationally, or in some of the development leagues...they may be playing all year long.
Many, I believe, use steroids as a way to help them make it through the season.  I'm sure that even the players who make it to October are pretty much hating life a bit because they need time for 6 months of wear and tear to heal.  Of course...at that level, anything that can give you a competitive advantage is a huge deal...
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by daswah

lvt, I think that steroids help with bat speed and control.  Also, maybe allows you to use a heavier bat.  But it's not just steroids but other stimulants.  It's a long season and especially for those who end up playing internationally, or in some of the development leagues...they may be playing all year long.
Many, I believe, use steroids as a way to help them make it through the season.  I'm sure that even the players who make it to October are pretty much hating life a bit because they need time for 6 months of wear and tear to heal.  Of course...at that level, anything that can give you a competitive advantage is a huge deal...


I assume you are replying to my statement that people who use steroids to perform better at baseball are as stupid as the people who smoke to lose weight?

My point wasn't that it doesn't work, my point was that it is detrimental to your health. I can believe how warped your whole perspective of this situation is. It is truly amazing, but does explain how these idiots are enticed to use steroids and other PED's in the first place.
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daswah View Drop Down
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  Quote daswah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 7:24pm
We all do things that are detrimental to our health.  Drink too much coffee.  Drive cars that give off poisonous fumes.  Eat food with corn sugar and not eat enough veggies and fruits.  Not everyone looks both way before crossing the street.
 
It's a calculated risk to take steroids.  Would I take steroids if it meant a contract in the $40-50 range vs. $10-15 million?  I don't know...I have no idea what it means to make $1,000,000 much less $10 million.  I'd like to think that I would be happy to be getting $10 million...that it would be enough.  But if I were in MLB?  I don't know...I think I might be pretty darn tempted to do a couple cycles and see how it worked out.  And if I got that extension, I'd probably use that positive reinforcement to use more and see how it worked out.  I wouldn't be thinking about long term effects...I hvae $50 million dollars to make my life comfortable...even if it's shortened by juicing.
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