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2014 Keepers?

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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2014 Keepers?
    Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 7:59am
I'm not going to win it this year, so I'm setting myself up to have the best keepers possible. It's a 12 team, 5 x 5 mixed league, where we keep 7 players, and there are no salaries or limits to how long you can keep players.

I could make a trade to make my keepers even better; maybe getting Matt Harvey to be my second pitcher? However, first place is locked up, so hardly anybody is making moves to compete. Everyone is in looking for keepers in trade.

I'd like to go into 2013 with a shortstop. Should I target Tulo? Segura is pretty much as unproven as Puig, so I don't know if I'd go down that road.

I could go after Harvey....or maybe Verlander? We're in the Detroit market, so Verlander's price is still very high, despite his poor showing this season. Harvey's owner has said he's not for sale, so I'd really have to blow his doors off to get him.

I've bolded 8 potential keepers. I can only keep 7. If I had to choose right now, Corbin would be the odd man out, but it's a tough call. What would you do?

C- Wilson Ramos
1B- Paul Goldschmidt
2B- Robinson Cano
3B- Nolan Arenado
SS- Nick Franklin
OF- Mike Trout
OF- Giancarlo Stanton
OF- Yasiel Puig
OF- Dexter Fowler
U- Paul Konerko
U- Logan Morrison

Bn- Chase Headley, Andrelton Simmons, Xander Bogaerts, Salvador Perez (DL)

SP- Clayton Kershaw
SP- Adam Wainwright
SP- Patrick Corbin
SP- Doug Fister
SP- Zack Wheeler
SP- Andrew Cashner
RP- Kenley Jansen
RP- Edward Mujica
RP- Koji Uehara

Bn- Mark Melancon, Trevor Rosenthal, Rex Brothers, Taijuan Walker, Brandon McCarthy, Brett Anderson (DL), Paul Maholm (DL)


Edited by lvtdude - 05 Aug 2013 at 8:17am
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 8:01am
Stanton and Corbin for Harvey. I still reject if I am the Harvey owner though.
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 8:16am
That's a man-crush on Harvey! Understandable, though.

If I made that deal, I'd be keeping 3 starting pitchers; Kershaw, Wainwright, and Harvey. That's not really a bad thing, but I'd rather not keep more than 2 starters. I can always find good starting pitching. And, I wouldn't want to throw back Wainwright to keep someone like Fowler.


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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 8:19am
Kershaw, Strasburg, Harvey are my top 3 SP in a keeper league.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 8:22am
In my 12 team keeper I am trying to get Harvey and keep him with Felix, Wain, Stras. Have Corbin now as 4th SP trying to use in trade. Adding J, Reyes and few others.
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 8:28am
I don't have Strasburg that high. He hasn't set himself apart from the crowd this season, and he has injury history. 
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 8:36am
Strasburg has a 3.03 era and 1.08 whip with more than a K per inning and only 25 years old. Think he will be the # 2 SP next year.

I get Harvey if you can. I think Stanton is very overrated. And who knows about Corbin. Maybe he is really this good?
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 8:45am
Chris Sale has a 2.92 ERA and 1.05 WHIP and a 9.8 K per 9, and he's a year younger.

Madison Bumgarner is also younger, and has a 2.69 ERA, a 0.973 WHIP and a K per inning.

Mike Minor is the same age and has better ERA and WHIP with slightly lower K numbers.

And, Jose Fernandez may be better than all of them, and he's way younger.

There are just too many really good pitchers to put that kind of stock in Strasburg with his history.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 8:50am
Not counting fernandez since he only has a few starts under his belt I think all the guys you named are overachieving to be equal with Strasburg underachieving. I would not trade Strasburg for all 3 of those guys in a keeper league. For his arm history I like that he already has had TJ surgery. It will come for the other guys later. Kershaw is the only SP I trade him for straight up.

Edited by LABLUE - 05 Aug 2013 at 8:51am
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 8:52am
Stanton was dealt a bad hand this year. I can't say that he's overrated, though. The guy is 23 years old, and his 162 game average (per Baseball Reference) is .266, 39, 98, 85, 6. Even at his young age he has a .352 OBP, and an OPS+ of 138.

At his age, these are the most similar hitters in baseball history:

  1. Juan Gonzalez (934)
  2. Boog Powell (934)
  3. Bob Horner (933)
  4. Tony Conigliaro (924)
  5. Frank Robinson (921) *
  6. Miguel Cabrera (920)
  7. Justin Upton (920)
  8. Eddie Mathews (908) *
  9. Jose Canseco (907)
  10. Dick Kokos (906)

* Hall of Fame

That's a heck of a list.


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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 8:56am
I look at Stanton 3 year avg of 31 hr, 77 rbi, 66 runs, 5 sb, 269 avg as who he is. Injury prone again this year. He could be better he played 162 games but he is like Tulo. I like stats over what if he played 162.
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 9:00am
I got rid of Stanton this preseason for Wain thankfully in my 5 year keeper league that has 3 more years left before a redraft.
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 9:04am
428.3 352 138 40 458 119 27 22 12 2.90 1.10
381.7 307 126 32 447 108 26 19 0 2.97 1.09
INN---HITS--ER-HR--K--BB--W-L-S-BS-H--ERA-WHIP

For two guys that are nearly identical, you sure make a lot of Strasburg underachieving and Sale overachieving. Other than K per 9, Sale has him beat. Sale also has a better K per 9 this season.

If you held Strasburg to the same standard you have for Stanton, I don't think your opinion of him would be as high.

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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 9:07am
That is my point. I think Sale is pitching as good as he can or even a little over his head and expect him to come down. I think Starsburg can be better than Kershaw. Sale and Strasburg are close yet I think one is underachieving and the other is overachieving. So a no brainer who I want by far.
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 9:08am
I am very happy with Strasburg's numbers this year. Are you with Stanton's? I don't see how that is a comparison.

I don't look a w/l record for SP since it is mostly luck. He is the last rated SP in run support last I heared. Kershaw getting bad run support also this year. Shame if you look at their record to go with the other stats they have. Then look at someone like Scherzer with his record and he has the same other stats as them.

Edited by LABLUE - 05 Aug 2013 at 9:11am
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 9:12am
If you can do Stanton and Corbin for Harvey take it and run.
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 9:43am
I never looked at won-loss record. Sale and Strasburg are in the same boat. I don't see how you think Sale is overachieving. He's performing to his career numbers, and he's 24 years old. His highest ERA was 3.14 and his highest WHIP was 1.14. Maybe he under-achieved last season?

I honestly don't know who is going to be better in the long run. Would I like to have Strasburg? Sure. But, there are probably 5 to 10 other guys I'd be just as comfortable owning. Some of them may not have Strasburg's upside, but I don't even know if Strasburg has that upside anymore, since he's already had TJ surgery. He also had forearm tightness in late April and a lat strain in June, so I have to wonder if he's going to be the next Mark Prior or Josh Johnson.

My point about Stanton is that you're calling him injury prone, and blaming all his stats on that. Nevermind the fact that he's on a horrific Marlins team. If he had 400 ab's right now, he'd be right around 20 homers, with over 50 runs and rbi. That would be more than I expected with the team he's on.

My comparison between Stanton and Strasburg is this. Neither one of them has ever logged a full season. That's the truth. They've both shown immense talent. They've both had injuries. However, Stanton's injuries have been things like a pulled hamstring, and Strasburg's have been a torn UCL, forearm tightness, and lat strains- all things that greatly impact a pitcher's ability to pitch.

When is the last time a hitter had his career end because of a hammy?

For what it's worth, I wouldn't trade Stanton for Strasburg straight up. I have a feeling that Stanton will be continue to be a beast 5-10 years from now, and Strasburg may be out of the game.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 9:51am
You blame Strasburg for the stupid GM shutting him down last year? That is a full season to me. Again you said IF Stanton had 400 ab's. Like Dreifert , Tulo, Harden. I like stats or IF's. I like Strasburg's numbers this year and what he is on pace for. Once again I hate Stanton's numbers like every year. His 3 year avg is what I expect from him each year. 30-35 hr and bad other numbers. You can't blame a team around him for a hitter since he is stuck on that team and you know that going in. Part of the reason I say he is overrated. If he gets traded to COL then I would re-evalute him.

If someone sent me Stanton for my Strasburg in a keeper league I would send them back my Haren for Cargo.



Edited by LABLUE - 05 Aug 2013 at 9:53am
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 10:18am
Then, we agree to disagree. 

It will be very interesting to see how these guys careers pan out.

Speaking of Cargo, there's another guy that is overrated. One season of 30+ homers. One season of 145 games.  One season over 518 ab's. One season of 100 runs and/or rbi. One season over 20 steals. 2010 was a very good year. He's really good, but he can't stay healthy, either. He's got 42 games left this season if he matches his career high.

*EDIT* He's going on the DL today. Par for the course....

*RE-EDIT* Likely to go on the DL. Even better. Owners will know 5 minutes after roster deadlines, most likely.  Clap



Edited by lvtdude - 05 Aug 2013 at 10:22am
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2013 at 11:57am
Most overrtaed player of all time is A. Trammell

Edited by LABLUE - 05 Aug 2013 at 11:57am
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