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Trade Felix for Weaver and Moore?

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britter87 View Drop Down
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  Quote britter87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Trade Felix for Weaver and Moore?
    Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 7:10am
A guy really wants Felix before the draft in order to keep him, and offered me Weaver plus a player of my choice between Matt Moore, Mat Latos or even Cliff Lee. I have to think about dollar values in the trade as I will be keeping both of these players. Felix cost $34 predraft, Weaver is $29, Moore is $16, Latos is $12 and Lee is $32. I like Weaver and Moore the best out of the possibilities. What do you guys think? Do I do this?
 
We can only keep 5, and my 5 would be Trout, Weaver, Gio, Moore, and either Cespedes or Castro. (leaning towards Castro)
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 8:09am
Keep Castro over Cespedes for sure. Id keep Felix and then just keep another 5th player. Felix and Gio is a good start for your SP.
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negan50 View Drop Down
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  Quote negan50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 9:17am
If the dollar amount works; I like Felix / Cespedes over Weaver / Moore.
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britter87 View Drop Down
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  Quote britter87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 5:11pm
Sorry I forgot to mention Cespedes will be $2 before the average and Castro is $14.

What about a Felix for Strasburg and Adam Jones trade? Strasburg would be $20 and Jones $15 before the average. I should mention I am in a points league.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 5:14pm
Hell id take Strasburg for Felix by himself for 14 less. I like him better for the same price. And you can get Jones throw in which is probably a top 10 outfielder for 15?
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britter87 View Drop Down
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  Quote britter87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 5:27pm
Well for sure I love the idea of the deal, what I'm struggling with is in my points league Strasburg is projected for a little less than 100 points LESS than Felix. And the upside to Jones over Cespedes is projected to be about 5 points and 0.5 points over Castro. So points wise I'm not gaining a thing...
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negan50 View Drop Down
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  Quote negan50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 9:57pm
Pardon my ignorance but what categories are you measuring that projects such a difference between the two pitchers? At a stage of learning the differences in value between roto/points.
With the trade your keepers would be Strasburg, Gio, Trout, Castro & A.Jones...yes?
Strasburg / Jones = $35
Felix / Cespedes =  $34  (with Gio, Trout & Castro the same in both scenarios)
Good news is what great choices you have based on straight up projections. On every site I've seen so far Stras is a tier ahead of Felix and is starting to show up in round #1 as first SP selected.

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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 11:09pm
Yea that must be one messed up scoring if Felix crushes Strasburg. I have Strasburg rated higher overall. I have Strasburg with more wins, k's and better era/whip.
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britter87 View Drop Down
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  Quote britter87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 6:12am
I dont think its messed up at all. For pitching the scoring is 3 point per IP, -3 point per ER, 1 point per K, 3 points per W, 3 points per L, 7 points per Save, 3 points per CG, 3 points per Shut Out, 5 points per No Hitter, 3 points per Perfect Game, 1 point per Pickoff. Thats all. The big projected difference is in IP between Felix and Strasburg.
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lipsgardner View Drop Down
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  Quote lipsgardner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 6:29am
cespedes at $2 is a must keep!  this guy is going to be way better than adam jones this year and the next ten.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 7:53am
The flaw is 3 points per IP. You get the same points for a win as you do an IP. IP needs to be one point. Neither get saves but you get 7 for a save and 3 for a win? Saves are much easier to get then wins. 5 for a no hitter and 7 for a save? Count how many of each there are in a season. Then you have more for a no hitter then a perfect game when the perfect game is harder? Also hope you have -3 per loss instead of 3 for loss like you typed. The only cat that seems normal/reasonable is 1 point per K.

I still have Strasburg beating Felix in every cat but IP. Not giving either of them a perfect game, no hitter, or shutout since to hard to project.

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britter87 View Drop Down
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  Quote britter87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 10:28am
Alright, let me try to explain this better... It is 3 points for IP which means it is 1 point per out and if they happen to strike out that hitter they get the extra point for the K, Saves are 7 points because a closer then can actually affect a week, an average save gets you 11 points (7 points for the save, 3 points for the IP and 1 K) and thats for the good closers. The win is only work 3 points because a pitcher will go lets say 7 IP, 2 ER and 5 Ks with the W. So that SP gets 21 from the IPs, -6 from the ERs and 5 points from the Ks and then a bonus 3 points for the win which would give him 23 points for the start, which is above average.

Now lets get to the CG, SO, NH and PG bonuses. So a SP throws a Perfect game, which yes I know hardly ever happen, but lately it seems to happen once a year. So the pitcher throws 9 IP, 0 ER and 5 Ks. You get 27 points for the IPs, 5 points for the Ks, 3 points for the CG, 3 points for the SO, 5 points for the NH and 3 points for the PG adding up to... 46 total points from your SP. And thats why they are worth what they are worth. Yes losses are -3 points, just a typo.

Also, our roster is set to have 4 SP spots and 2 RP spots, and NO P spots. That is why saves are worth something because you can only play 2 per day and they are completely random so you can't plan on them. Yes they happen a lot but it works because Fernando Rodney last year with his nearly record breaking season, had 621 points which was the 12th most of ALL pitchers. I don't feel that is too high for the season he had. Also, middle relievers are only allowed in the RP spots, not the SP spots which eliminates streaming middle relievers for extra points because you'd rather the upside of having a closer in your 2 RP spots than the low upside of a middle reliever.
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britter87 View Drop Down
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  Quote britter87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 10:30am
So Strasburg is $20 and Adam Jones is $15, and Felix is $34 and Cespedes is $2. I tend to agree with the Strasburg side.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 10:46am
You just added everything up. Still don't change how each individual thing is scored. You still are giving credit to the easier things to accomplish and less points to the hard things. It would be like giving 1 point for hr's and 3 points for a hit. Sure it is 4 points but the more points are given for the easier thing to do that happens more often.


If you are in a system that gives Felix 100 more points than Strasburg then I might like the Felix side better. Even though I have Strasburg being the better SP in most leagues this year straight up.
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LABLUE View Drop Down
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  Quote LABLUE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 10:50am
It is important to understand your system to give a correct answer. Yours is way different then any I have ever heard of so the typical answer wont apply.
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britter87 View Drop Down
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  Quote britter87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 10:51am
That is true, well what are your projected stats for Felix and Strasburg?
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britter87 View Drop Down
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  Quote britter87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 10:54am
I have Felix going about 232 IP, 230 Ks, 3.05 ERA, 1.13 WHIP and about a 15-10 record. Strasburg I have at 194 IP, 220 Ks, 3.10 ERA, 1.12 WHIP and about a 18-8 record.
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 11:29am
That's a crazy scoring system. It's like giving a QB 1 point per pass, and additional point if it is completed, and 3 more points for a TD. Oh, and kickers get 18 for every FG.
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britter87 View Drop Down
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  Quote britter87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 11:31am
Alright what scoring system should be used for pitchers if we have 4 SP spots and 2 RP spots with no P spots.
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lvtdude View Drop Down
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  Quote lvtdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 11:35am
The scoring system for pitchers depends on the scoring system for hitters, too. You need some sort of balance. You can't have a good starting pitcher worth 5 times as much as a good shortstop, for instance.
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